Noodles on Fit
Mar. 3rd, 2021 10:09 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
totchipandaSo, I am one of those people that ENJOYS reading instructions (provided they are not extremely technical). Since the print shop is quiet right now, I've been poking through old instruction manuals on archive.org to my 20 in 20 project.
Over the last oh... while, not sure how long exactly but at least a few years, I've been trying to expand my knowledge of fit when it comes to sewing and patterns. When I learned to sew in junior and high school, my teacher told us to take whatever the pattern envelope said and to cut the next size DOWN. I also distinctly remember sewing up a pattern size 12 because that's what it said I needed based on my measurements (and WOE 15 year old me was TRAUMATIZED - a size TWELVE!!!) and then I ended up taking it in a ridiculous amount, something like 8". A now-ex-friend told me to choose sizes based on the finished measurements, which led me to cutting some patterns at like, a size 4, which was also ridiculous, but I still use that finished measurement on the tissue to choose my pattern size. At least for Big 4. Indie patterns tend to be sized better, with less ease built in.
But that's still not the most ideal situation. I still end up with ill-fitting garments, mostly with too much fabric in the chest. I've known for awhile that I'm just not proportioned for RTW-style patterns. I'm short shoulder-to-bust, long bust-to-hip, wide hips, protruding belly, boobs. Longer crotch depth, a booty and short legs. I should have been tall, damnit!
I started by taking a big ol' tuck out of the chest, but that usually binds the armscye too much. I started trying to fit the largest part of me (my belly) and adjusting down for my chest. I tried choosing patterns based on my upper bust measurement, but it's the same as my full bust (thanks to my recent mammogram, I know I've got dense tissue). I've tried lengthening patterns with limited success. I've tried... so many things. And still not enough. None of this was taught in my classes, and possibly it might have been if I had gone on to post-secondary education, but I hated sewing so much that I stopped completely once I was out of HS for a good 4-5 years.
In the fall, I made a dress from a vintage pattern. In theory, it would fit me OK. Bust of 40" (mine is 39"), don't remember the rest but it was OK. I didn't make a mock-up and proceeded full-speed-ahead. The dress doesn't fit, but it was a fun way to spend an afternoon! This highlighted most of the issues I've been poking at recently.
Too much chest!
I could stick my whole hand width wise into the shoulder. YIKES. This did put the full bust point where it was supposed to be, but WOW that was a lot extra.
Too little booty!
I noted where I needed a sway-back adjustment, but I read recently that this type of adjustment is often not needed, and what really needs to happen is more room for your butt.
Too little belly!
My belly sticks out. I've had it for years and years and years and YEARS and its the kind of belly that doesn't go away without making my life significantly less enjoyable. I get asked when I'm due A LOT. The dress pulled a little at the front, which was fine, but this has become more noticeable as I attempt to fit pants and stays.
Too wide shoulders!
Both the dress, which was sleeveless but came out just past the point of my shoulder, and a week later I wore my cotton sacque and noticed in pictures just how far it was hanging off my shoulder. Like a full inch DOWN my arm. WTF?
Bodies are weird, yo.
That led me down a path of "narrow shoulder", "narrow chest" and "full belly" adjustments. The first involves narrowing the shoulder seam. The second removes width from the chest. The third adds both length and width at the front, and is swung from the bust point so it's added where it's needed.
In doing the second, I realized that what I likely SHOULD be doing instead is cutting a smaller size pattern, and then doing a FULL bust adjustment. When you look at commercial patterns, they get wider and wider as the sizes go up. I took this noodle up recently with the Redthreaded stays, Amalia Jacket, and in looking at the sacque pattern (it's from AD's Simplicity pattern). I'm small in the ribs, and need room for my boobs. Only a few fingers-widths under that, I need room for my belly, and my hips.
These all happened in a short period. RT's pattern was lengthened, which was actually TOO long, but only at the back. I still need the length in front to go down far enough over my belly. I tried to add some room for the hips so that the too-long back didn't try to collapse into my ribs, but that just let my belly sink out. The underarms were too high, digging in painfully and collapsing into my sides when I moved my arms. I took the binding off and cut it down some. It's still not perfect, but it's better.
Then when I was the Amalia jacket, I started with my measurement size, and lengthened the front at CF only. The chest area needed to be smaller, but also have more room at CENTER front only. I thought it was not well-fitting at all, until I let the jacket sit where it wanted to, and then it was fitting very well indeed. I have to lengthen for the belly, but lower for the neckline. Go figure.
I also ended up narrowing the strap a bit, as the underarm needed widening in order not to cut into my arms. I started to consider that I needed to pick sizes, even for indie patterns, basted on what my B-cup bust would be if I took my underbust measurement into account. So few are drafted for larger cups. It feels so weird to say that I have "large" boobs, especially if you've met my sisters (and I have 4) who all have, shall we say, impressive chests, but here we are. I do have large boobs, compared to my ribs and shoulders. Even RTW bras are usually too wide in the set of their straps to be as well-fitting as guides say they should be.
For the sacque, I took all of those various noodles and put them together. Length and width at the front, check. Narrower shoulders, check. But I did not account for the actual shoulder piece to be too wide and the armscye not deep enough. Once I did that, suddenly my sacque mock up fit SO MUCH BETTER.
Now we are back to the sewing manuals. I found a 1915 manual published by Butterick that contains all of the general sewing knowledge that most people were expected to have. In the pattern fitting section, it talks about how to adjust for bust sizes when one has more flesh either fore or aft, and that just solidified my guess that I need smaller patterns to make FULL bust adjustments on. My thrust is forward. Doing a small bust adjustment on something that is too wide for my torso is doing me no favours.
Since I have only JUST come to this firm conclusion like, yesterday, I obviously haven't had an opportunity to put it into practice. I've been drafting 95% of my 20's wardrobe myself, which does help because I can moderate the width of each piece where it needs to be.
For my future reference:
Choose a smaller bodice size, do a full bust adjustment
But also grade up for waist and hip
Full belly adjustment to add width and length at the front only
Narrow shoulder - can try the "official" way, may just need to remove width
ALWAYS MAKE A MOCK UP FOR THE FIRST TIME USING THE PATTERN
I haven't tackled lower body adjustments, but will look at full belly at CF, and full seat/longer crotch depth/full thigh, full calf, and a whole host of other adjustments that I probably can't conceive of yet.
Over the last oh... while, not sure how long exactly but at least a few years, I've been trying to expand my knowledge of fit when it comes to sewing and patterns. When I learned to sew in junior and high school, my teacher told us to take whatever the pattern envelope said and to cut the next size DOWN. I also distinctly remember sewing up a pattern size 12 because that's what it said I needed based on my measurements (and WOE 15 year old me was TRAUMATIZED - a size TWELVE!!!) and then I ended up taking it in a ridiculous amount, something like 8". A now-ex-friend told me to choose sizes based on the finished measurements, which led me to cutting some patterns at like, a size 4, which was also ridiculous, but I still use that finished measurement on the tissue to choose my pattern size. At least for Big 4. Indie patterns tend to be sized better, with less ease built in.
But that's still not the most ideal situation. I still end up with ill-fitting garments, mostly with too much fabric in the chest. I've known for awhile that I'm just not proportioned for RTW-style patterns. I'm short shoulder-to-bust, long bust-to-hip, wide hips, protruding belly, boobs. Longer crotch depth, a booty and short legs. I should have been tall, damnit!
I started by taking a big ol' tuck out of the chest, but that usually binds the armscye too much. I started trying to fit the largest part of me (my belly) and adjusting down for my chest. I tried choosing patterns based on my upper bust measurement, but it's the same as my full bust (thanks to my recent mammogram, I know I've got dense tissue). I've tried lengthening patterns with limited success. I've tried... so many things. And still not enough. None of this was taught in my classes, and possibly it might have been if I had gone on to post-secondary education, but I hated sewing so much that I stopped completely once I was out of HS for a good 4-5 years.
In the fall, I made a dress from a vintage pattern. In theory, it would fit me OK. Bust of 40" (mine is 39"), don't remember the rest but it was OK. I didn't make a mock-up and proceeded full-speed-ahead. The dress doesn't fit, but it was a fun way to spend an afternoon! This highlighted most of the issues I've been poking at recently.
Too much chest!
I could stick my whole hand width wise into the shoulder. YIKES. This did put the full bust point where it was supposed to be, but WOW that was a lot extra.
Too little booty!
I noted where I needed a sway-back adjustment, but I read recently that this type of adjustment is often not needed, and what really needs to happen is more room for your butt.
Too little belly!
My belly sticks out. I've had it for years and years and years and YEARS and its the kind of belly that doesn't go away without making my life significantly less enjoyable. I get asked when I'm due A LOT. The dress pulled a little at the front, which was fine, but this has become more noticeable as I attempt to fit pants and stays.
Too wide shoulders!
Both the dress, which was sleeveless but came out just past the point of my shoulder, and a week later I wore my cotton sacque and noticed in pictures just how far it was hanging off my shoulder. Like a full inch DOWN my arm. WTF?
Bodies are weird, yo.
That led me down a path of "narrow shoulder", "narrow chest" and "full belly" adjustments. The first involves narrowing the shoulder seam. The second removes width from the chest. The third adds both length and width at the front, and is swung from the bust point so it's added where it's needed.
In doing the second, I realized that what I likely SHOULD be doing instead is cutting a smaller size pattern, and then doing a FULL bust adjustment. When you look at commercial patterns, they get wider and wider as the sizes go up. I took this noodle up recently with the Redthreaded stays, Amalia Jacket, and in looking at the sacque pattern (it's from AD's Simplicity pattern). I'm small in the ribs, and need room for my boobs. Only a few fingers-widths under that, I need room for my belly, and my hips.
These all happened in a short period. RT's pattern was lengthened, which was actually TOO long, but only at the back. I still need the length in front to go down far enough over my belly. I tried to add some room for the hips so that the too-long back didn't try to collapse into my ribs, but that just let my belly sink out. The underarms were too high, digging in painfully and collapsing into my sides when I moved my arms. I took the binding off and cut it down some. It's still not perfect, but it's better.
Then when I was the Amalia jacket, I started with my measurement size, and lengthened the front at CF only. The chest area needed to be smaller, but also have more room at CENTER front only. I thought it was not well-fitting at all, until I let the jacket sit where it wanted to, and then it was fitting very well indeed. I have to lengthen for the belly, but lower for the neckline. Go figure.
I also ended up narrowing the strap a bit, as the underarm needed widening in order not to cut into my arms. I started to consider that I needed to pick sizes, even for indie patterns, basted on what my B-cup bust would be if I took my underbust measurement into account. So few are drafted for larger cups. It feels so weird to say that I have "large" boobs, especially if you've met my sisters (and I have 4) who all have, shall we say, impressive chests, but here we are. I do have large boobs, compared to my ribs and shoulders. Even RTW bras are usually too wide in the set of their straps to be as well-fitting as guides say they should be.
For the sacque, I took all of those various noodles and put them together. Length and width at the front, check. Narrower shoulders, check. But I did not account for the actual shoulder piece to be too wide and the armscye not deep enough. Once I did that, suddenly my sacque mock up fit SO MUCH BETTER.
Now we are back to the sewing manuals. I found a 1915 manual published by Butterick that contains all of the general sewing knowledge that most people were expected to have. In the pattern fitting section, it talks about how to adjust for bust sizes when one has more flesh either fore or aft, and that just solidified my guess that I need smaller patterns to make FULL bust adjustments on. My thrust is forward. Doing a small bust adjustment on something that is too wide for my torso is doing me no favours.
Since I have only JUST come to this firm conclusion like, yesterday, I obviously haven't had an opportunity to put it into practice. I've been drafting 95% of my 20's wardrobe myself, which does help because I can moderate the width of each piece where it needs to be.
For my future reference:
Choose a smaller bodice size, do a full bust adjustment
But also grade up for waist and hip
Full belly adjustment to add width and length at the front only
Narrow shoulder - can try the "official" way, may just need to remove width
ALWAYS MAKE A MOCK UP FOR THE FIRST TIME USING THE PATTERN
I haven't tackled lower body adjustments, but will look at full belly at CF, and full seat/longer crotch depth/full thigh, full calf, and a whole host of other adjustments that I probably can't conceive of yet.
no subject
Date: 2021-03-04 03:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-03-04 03:39 pm (UTC)I agree on underbust being more reliable. I actually had a man at a ball try to tell me that corsets are torture devices - listen here, bud, I am wearing one RIGHT NOW, it's barely boned, and it stops at the bottom of my ribs. I cracked one by falling in the tub so I know exactly how not-squishy ribs are, and I'm very comfortable. Do not start with me. lol.
I do have corsets on my table soon, thanks for the tip about side length :D That hasn't come up much in my fit adventures yet, but its gonna!
no subject
Date: 2021-03-04 02:55 pm (UTC)And when someone asks when you are due, look them right in the eye and tell them it is an inoperable tumor. That should shut them the fuck up.
no subject
Date: 2021-03-04 03:42 pm (UTC)Pffff an inoperable tumor XD I hope I remember that the next time it happens. The look on their face would be priceless!